Flying Solo: If I Had a Magic Wand…

[00:00:00.00] [MUSIC PLAYING] 
[00:00:04.67] SPEAKER: Welcome to The Insurance Technology Podcast ish thing. What am I doing here today. [LAUGHS] 
[00:00:14.82] KRISTEN: You are not the host today, you are the guest. We're doing one of your solo episodes. Because I feel there's all of these opinions that you have that we never really get to dive into. 
[00:00:26.19] SPEAKER: I don't have a lot of opinions. You make it sound bad, like all these opinions you have. 
[00:00:30.93] KRISTEN: I don't think they're bad opinions. 
[00:00:32.07] SPEAKER: Opinionated, I don't know, maybe. 
[00:00:33.22] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:00:36.71] KRISTEN: I apologize in advance for all of the bleeping we have to do, OK? 
[00:00:40.13] SPEAKER: Right? 
[00:00:40.58] KRISTEN: So what we're going-- we have been doing this podcast for years now, and we've been asking as we've been going, things that people wanted to change. And so we're going to look back at some guests and their answers to what would be the one thing that they would want to change in the industry, and have we seen any movement towards changing that or is that not really a problem. 
[00:01:06.21] The first two I put together because I feel like they're very similar. Well, not very similar. They connect. So I think it's the same challenge but set in a different way. So Niji had said anyone in the broker space knows, unless you are really big and successful, like a hub or another national, getting market access is a big challenge. 
[00:01:35.20] SPEAKER: Hmm. 
[00:01:37.52] KRISTEN: And then Bradley Flowers, if I could wave a magic wand, I would eliminate all the big wholesalers and go direct to carriers. So I feel like they connect together around like this market access piece. And I think from what I've heard from talking to our team, it seems like there's more business going into ENS, which Bradley alluded to. 
[00:02:00.72] SPEAKER: Yeah. 
[00:02:01.37] KRISTEN: So do you see that as a problem, market access? 
[00:02:05.22] SPEAKER: You know, it's funny, like, I can see why Niji would say that, especially from his perspective of what they do at AgentSync. But like I don't know. When I think about market access, I think about I could go start an agency tomorrow and I could go get access, just like anybody could go start an agency tomorrow and go get market access, but maybe not the right market access or for the right plan, rates, how much I get paid, what is that. I don't know if that's-- yeah. 
[00:02:45.95] And maybe at the time he was talking about there was a lot going on around like in California and all of that and the personal line side and there's chaos around that. If I need like appointments and I need like carriers to write business for certain things, I don't know. I mean, ENS is completely exploded as we know. I mean, it's continuing to grow like mad. And you probably know the numbers. I don't know off the top of my head, but I just know. And so there's a lot there. 
[00:03:15.15] And then I could see why Bradley Flowers would say, hey, I would just go direct to the carrier. Yeah, no kidding. But that's why those MGAs are there. And that's why they do the deal with the carriers, the carrier. That's kind of their distribution channel method, if you will, for that. And so that's just really more of a carrier decision. 
[00:03:34.95] Yeah, so I don't know. I wouldn't look at that as a problem. I could see it being a problem in waves based on capacity and natural disasters and things like that. But generally, I don't know. No. 
[00:03:50.59] KRISTEN: And then adding that intermediary, so looking at the rest of the contacts around where Bradley was going, and it's adding that additional step. So you're-- 
[00:03:59.62] SPEAKER: Yeah, fair enough. No, I get that. Totally. 
[00:04:01.47] KRISTEN: --increasing efficiencies, and then it's the whole piece of the commission. It all comes down to money as well, right? 
[00:04:06.79] SPEAKER: Yeah, but there's people that are out there that are building platforms for those MGAs in that middle market. 
[00:04:13.99] KRISTEN: Yeah. 
[00:04:15.43] SPEAKER: There's a few of them that are out there doing that. And they're trying to solve that. They're trying to do directly connecting into the carrier systems and all that to streamline it overall, which is, if you think about that we were talking about a second ago, that MGA, wholesaler kind of relationship with the carrier and then to their distribution, that can make a lot more sense for the carrier to partner with these guys that are building all that tech that people are adopting. I don't know. So I could see that. It's more like streamlining the overall flow. I totally get that. 
[00:04:45.74] KRISTEN: Yeah. 
[00:04:46.44] SPEAKER: But yeah, maybe painful, but I think there are markets out there for most things, generally speaking. But we could totally wrong. 
[00:04:54.42] KRISTEN: There is something that ensure tech can support. So maybe the magic wand is not eliminating the wholesalers, it's streamlining the process. 
[00:05:04.03] SPEAKER: Yeah, right, right. 
[00:05:06.54] KRISTEN: And Shameless Plug, he did say Ivan's download with MGAs is a good thing. 
[00:05:10.18] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:05:10.78] 
[00:05:11.07] SPEAKER: Oh, nice. It is. 
[00:05:14.04] KRISTEN: OK, this one's kind of a heavy one, because I know that I've heard you say this particular phrase before. So Leticia, she is from a large broker. And she's saying the golden record. 
[00:05:33.63] SPEAKER: Ah, the golden record. 
[00:05:35.65] KRISTEN: Having everything that's going on, retrieving data, all the third party enrichment coming down to one place, the Golden record. Do you think we'll get there? 
[00:05:46.97] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:05:47.81] 
[00:05:48.78] SPEAKER: I love that this-- this one like comes up, like floats up like a little butterfly every once in a while, the golden record, yeah. I mean, I don't know, maybe, eventually. I've sat in rooms talking about that at great length with carriers, brokers, both of them in the room. If you remember the whole golden record thing with Henicorhina and Bill Devine and all of that, and they were trying to do all that thing and they were so after it and they were going to fix it. 
[00:06:18.88] And at the end of the day, it's very beneficial for the industry, but people don't want to share that level of data. Because it makes it easier for my competitors to take that away from me. And so that's the rub. The golden record thing, like you think about back to the blockchain shit and all that, not to be like buzzworthy or whatever, something like that could work. Like there's something there with something like that. 
[00:06:48.16] But I think it's just-- again, it just goes back to our industry just not being that technically advanced, where everything's digital. They just don't-- like you talk about the golden record, I'm not kidding you, I was just on a call an hour ago with a tier 1 carrier, and we're like, hey, like, so if I could give you exactly what you want, what is that? And they're like, I'd be honest with you, man, we don't really know. Like for real. And so that's cool. That's just like where we are. 
[00:07:22.84] So if you think about the golden record and you'd be able to tap into that and use that and utilize that, now it's all connected, all these systems across the whole industry and all of that, I think we're a ways away from that. I mean, we're still trying to convince people to do digital submissions, using a uh-oh, used to be a cuss years ago, commercial lines comparative rater. I don't want to use that. We're still trying to do that. 
[00:07:47.47] I always bring up this example. Like I love it. It's so true. Like many years ago, I was at ITC and everybody was like, I don't even know, like whenever it started so many years ago, everybody was talking about AI and the impact for AI and all this and that and everybody's sitting on stage and you got big giant international carriers like we're investing all of our resources in AI. And they're like, what do you think, Reed? And I'm like, listen, we're still communicating via e-forms. Like not even e-forms, accord forms, actual paper forms. This is stuff that we're still trying to fix now. And it's like-- 
[00:08:20.85] KRISTEN: We have a client who still takes faxes. 
[00:08:22.28] 
[00:08:23.38] SPEAKER: I think people love to talk about big things. This is not a knock on Leticia. I love Leticia. She's like this, and by the way, this is not-- like, I get it, 100%. Ultimately, if we could get there, yes, 1,000% But I have a lot of energy behind this because I've had this conversation a million times. And yeah, as an industry, we have a ways to go in order to make something like that a reality. And how you get there is you start to invest in connectivity. And what that means is you start transacting digitally. 
[00:09:02.63] It's not about the forms, people. It's about the data that's in all that junk. It doesn't matter. And so there are systems and things that are built in this industry based on consuming information from that. And so there's a big transition, there's a lot of work that's going to have to get done in order to solve this type of stuff. 
[00:09:25.63] And by the way, this is good. I'm going off on a tangent here. I do have opinions around this stuff. By the way, when people are like, oh, nobody has APIs, and they're holding us back. I heard all these brokers, like chihuahuas. APIs, APIs, carriers aren't blah blah blah, APIs. Guys, it's because of this type of thing. It's not that simple to build this stuff. These are massive, massive, old, expensive systems. And so there's a lot to unpack there. 
[00:09:55.74] KRISTEN: Well, and you were even saying forms, I was even thinking like just getting to the cloud. How many carriers are still getting off their legacy systems. I'll have to go find it and send it to you. There was something on LinkedIn where ANCOVA finally got all of their stuff into the cloud, and they're like pushing these massive servers out of the building after like-- 
[00:10:16.82] [INTERPOSING VOICES] 
[00:10:18.33] KRISTEN: --for years. 
[00:10:18.83] SPEAKER: Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. That's so cool. You know what'd be fun? It'd be fun to get one of those. That'd be fun. I'd get one of those and put it as a target. You could just shoot at it. Like just have a big one as a target. [LAUGHS] 
[00:10:32.34] KRISTEN: Oh, there we go. We'll have that at the InsurTech event that you and I are going to. 
[00:10:36.79] SPEAKER: Yes. 
[00:10:37.23] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:10:39.87] KRISTEN: Target practice on old servers. I'm sure that there's many people who would love to be part of that. It reminds me of is it office space where they're just like-- 
[00:10:48.36] SPEAKER: Right? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's funny. What do they do with those things? Like, what do they do with that stuff? I don't know. 
[00:10:56.66] KRISTEN: All right, next one. Our strategist, Adam Denninger. So he's focused on the ability to have customer-centric user experiences. And basically talking about ways to enable the people. 
[00:11:19.98] SPEAKER: OK. 
[00:11:20.82] KRISTEN: Having all the parts of the customer-centric data represented for a user experience that people can actually interpret, understand, and use. So it's not just underwriters or just claims, it's all of the ways that your customer is going to be interacting and making it more about the customer than the person that's inside the four walls of the carrier. 
[00:11:42.11] SPEAKER: How could you make it more customer-centric I guess is the question. 
[00:11:46.76] KRISTEN: I think it kind of connects back to the Golden record piece too, if you think about it. 
[00:11:51.10] SPEAKER: Yeah. 
[00:11:52.39] KRISTEN: Even internally for us, the system that our product team is working in is different than the system that our marketing team is working in. So I think there's the same thing for our customers, where you have a claim system and probably an underwriting Workbench, and you're working across all these different things and how are you giving the customer the same experience when they're interacting with those different departments. 
[00:12:14.30] SPEAKER: I don't know. I guess just speaking super broadly, how could it be any different? I'm still like going to the app doing the thing. There's the stuff. Like you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like what am I missing I guess is my question. I don't know. Maybe it's too provocative of a question. I don't know. But like I just I'm thinking about it like I don't know what the problem is, I guess. 
[00:12:36.31] I could see what you're saying, that there's all these inefficiencies within the industry based on everything we were just talking about a minute ago on the whole [INAUDIBLE] record and just how our entire industry is just put together via the architecture that we have. And so it's ugly. And yes, claim systems are connected to policy systems and it's all over the place. I get it. Rating systems and blah blah blah. But yeah, I don't know. How do you make it such a better customer experience? 
[00:13:05.45] Now I guess with AI and whatever and whatnot, there's all kinds of cool stuff with that. That can connect the things and do the things and bring it together in a new way that we haven't been able to. That's cool. But yeah, I could see it. I just don't know-- when I think of what is the ultimate customer-centric tool and what is the best thing you could do for any customer, developing a personal relationship with them. Like period. That works. Truly connecting to the human. But I mean, yeah, I don't know-- 
[00:13:40.60] KRISTEN: I don't know if it was the podcast or if it was like one of our events, and if you're listening, tell me. Hey, Kristen. It was me, and you're taking credit for this. But someone was talking about that we as an industry, we care more about the actual policy than we do about-- 
[00:13:57.95] SPEAKER: Yeah, I remember that. 
[00:13:58.69] KRISTEN: --the client. 
[00:13:58.90] SPEAKER: Right, yeah, totally. I thought that was great. 100%. It's so true, right? How does that make you feel? 
[00:14:04.73] KRISTEN: Well, it's the human element. We talk about it for everything. Like with our partnerships. But I also think, yeah, me as somebody, if I have the need to talk to the person who's writing my insurance, I want it to be someone who's looking at it as me, as a person, not me as oh, they spend x with me for their homeowner's policy. 
[00:14:24.74] SPEAKER: That's right. 
[00:14:25.80] KRISTEN: It all adds up over time, though, right? Like, yes. OK, so human element. 
[00:14:33.81] SPEAKER: It's the human element. 
[00:14:35.12] KRISTEN: Right. Jason Kass, I swear he said this because he was on with you, but he said the one thing that he would do, integrations and connectivity. Basically he goes down and talks about why does everything have to take so long. And so he brings up the example of Uber Eats is a fairly new thing outside of the industry. And how long did it take them to get connections into all of the major franchises, like McDonald's and Taco Bell. Yet-- 
[00:15:08.50] SPEAKER: I remember that. That was really smart how he put that together. That was good. This is a good story. Yeah, sorry, keep going, keep going. 
[00:15:13.70] KRISTEN: No, so I mean, if you think about it that way and then so why can't we as an industry, why does it take so long for us to be able to connect things together? 
[00:15:23.00] SPEAKER: Yeah. 
[00:15:23.70] KRISTEN: I still think that. I don't think anything has been done here. I haven't seen things be quicker. 
[00:15:29.62] SPEAKER: Yeah. 
[00:15:30.96] KRISTEN: Does that go back to the foundational stuff and get to the cloud and everything connects faster? 
[00:15:36.78] SPEAKER: Well, 100%. But I'm thinking back to when he was talking about that, and I was thinking about that, and he was so right. It's like, dude, think about this. Like all of a sudden, boom, everybody has Uber Eats. You're like, what just happened? I can do that now? I remember there was a couple little grocery stores started to do it like a little bit and they're just like blah. And if you think about that, I guess probably because McDonald's and these guys have great point of sale systems and they're managing all the inventory and their franchises, so they're much more sophisticated, generally, I guess. But how-- 
[00:16:16.63] KRISTEN: I made that sale. That's the piece that gets to me, because I think, well, McDonald's, they'll come here. Why do I need to work with Uber Eats? 
[00:16:24.95] SPEAKER: Well, yeah. But the reality is, is that they did it because they had to. And a lot of that came from COVID and all that and everybody had to go pick up food. And so it just completely blew up. But it was happening way before that anyway. I mean, but now it's become like a standard, if you will, like everybody. There's all these different platforms for it. But it's interesting, so like why did that happen? Why could that not happen? And it goes back to what we were talking about before. I know Kass. He really does believe that. It's funny you say that because it's like, I think he said that because he was on with you. Because it's like, that's my world. 
[00:17:01.82] KRISTEN: But no, our team sent it back and they were like, this is what Kass wants to do. And it's like connectivity, integration. 
[00:17:07.43] SPEAKER: But he has been after that. And he talks a lot about it. And he's passionate about it. And I don't disagree. But it goes back to what we've been talking about in that it's hard to get there. It's whatever they say. It's like riding a battleship or whatever, you know what I mean? It's a monster. And we're doing that. 
[00:17:29.72] I mean, we went through the digital transformation and all that, everybody moving over to the new policy administration system, spending a gazillion dollars doing so. A lot of that's come through. So a lot of that's going away. Now carriers are actually really looking at their data and what can we do with that. And now they're actually investing in AI and what can we do there. And now they're actually investing in how can we streamline the overall flow, submission flow, not just, hey, let's have APIs for small commercial for the commercial lines comparative raters that nobody uses, which everybody should, which is whatever, dumbest thing ever, if you ask me. 
[00:18:01.60] And then mid-market, OK, we have to have a solution for that because our big brokers are asking for that because they're smart and they're using raters. And then it's like, hey, what can we do on the large side and invest in streamlining that to speed up that overall flow. That's what's actually happening out there in the industry. 
[00:18:20.62] And so we still have to go through all of that and start to check off those boxes before we can make some of this other stuff a reality, which is going to be in the future, in my opinion. 
[00:18:32.00] KRISTEN: Yeah, OK, so let me ask this then. So that Uber Eats thing, it's a good example of showing adoption. But it was caused by something that happened. If COVID didn't happen, do we think they would have taken off? 
[00:18:48.21] SPEAKER: I think so. I do. I think so. But I guess the point to it all is like how fast it all went down. But that's because it was massive demand and the market was shifting. And all of a sudden, it's like I'm losing revenue because I'm not connected into this thing that my competitors are connected to. And this is where the market is going and the market is demanding, so let me connect into it. [COUGHS] Commercial lines, comparative raters. 
[00:19:17.70] It's the same thing. Or what was, by the way, personal lines, comparative raters. And so yeah, I as an agency am only using a personal lines rater, and you don't show up, I'm not putting business with you because this is so much more efficient for me in my business. I'm going to use this tool. Oh, shit. We better make sure we're on that platform. Same thing with Uber Eats and whatnot. 
[00:19:44.16] But it's just cases like provocative statement like bringing that whole thing up, it's an interesting thought because it's like how fast and how massive that is to move to that so quickly. And so it's interesting. And as an industry, when you look at the dollars we have real, real, real, real dollars, overall. Not in the budgets, no. I get it. Nobody's making huge profits and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is, yeah, there's something to be said about the speed that they brought that to market in that. So it's kind of cool. It's cool statement. But we a long ways to go. 
[00:20:23.09] KRISTEN: I love that. The last piece of the transcript says, this is his words, "I know that it's a euphoric thought, an idea." 
[00:20:32.53] SPEAKER: [LAUGHS] Gotta love Jason Kass, man. I love him. 
[00:20:37.95] KRISTEN: All right. OK, so the last three kind of they tie together, but I'm going to take the first one on its own. So Jack Ramsay next. In my opinion, we have a huge talent gap that's not only now, but it's going to get bigger. 
[00:21:06.15] SPEAKER: Yeah. This is the thing Doug talks about all the time. Like this is his big thing, he gets on stage and talks about this. And its a topic. People keep bringing this up. And I don't know, it's true, yes, but we've been talking about that since I've been in the industry. 
[00:21:26.81] KRISTEN: --to say since I started. 
[00:21:28.47] SPEAKER: I mean, I don't know, maybe everybody's just always old. It's like you have to understand, when I got in this industry, you have to understand, man, the baby boomers, they're at this age, and now they're at this age, and they're going to get out of this business, and then there's going to be this big hole of people, and what are we going to do. We got to modernize. We've got to do all this stuff because these younger people aren't going to want to deal with this crap that we deal with. That's been the thing forever. 
[00:21:52.43] KRISTEN: Since I was in my 20s, and I remember, yeah, when I started in insurance, they were like, you're going to be the only one. 
[00:21:57.39] SPEAKER: Right? 
[00:21:58.70] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:22:02.78] KRISTEN: But I think that how the industry is handling it is different. I think at first it was, oh my God, we need to get as many of these kids that are in risk or actuary or whatever like to come into insurance. 
[00:22:18.46] SPEAKER: And I get it, totally. I could see it, yeah. 
[00:22:21.14] KRISTEN: But I don't feel like that has been, and maybe I'm out of the loop, and Vest, you can come and tell me that you guys are still attracting percentage of people out of college and high school, but I feel like it's more the consolidation and the automation. So you're not replacing the person when they retire, you're just using technology to augment, so it's not as big of a need to keep the amount of people that you have. 
[00:22:47.82] I will say where I feel like I've seen it and you can tell me if you feel like it's different is the amount of agencies that are selling to big national brokers versus it staying in the family. 
[00:23:06.62] SPEAKER: I see Jack's comment and I could see how that could be coming true. And it could hold us back as an industry. But what would that mean? We would just have to pay people more to entice them to do this job that nobody wants to do, I guess. I don't know. Or we start leveraging other companies to help us do that. We get smarter with our technology. We leverage AI in ways where we don't have to have as many humans doing redundant tasks that people that are retiring are doing now. 
[00:23:46.74] But I could see it. There's a lot of people that are aging out. I don't disagree. I've seen the numbers. Like I've been in these seminars. They're like talking about it. It's like a thing. And it's not like a thing, it is a thing. And so yeah. I don't know. What do you think? 
[00:23:59.73] KRISTEN: I think it's what you said around like getting people to do the job that they don't want to do. So I think it's less about that and more about, again, so this is two different people, but changing the perception of what the industry is. I think almost every single person that you've had on this podcast has said I didn't plan on going into insurance, I just kind of fell into it, and it's great and there's so much opportunity and there's all of these things. 
[00:24:25.22] And so Kurt Stevenson said that there's a disconnect between policyholders and the value that they actually receive. So he's thinking it from a policy holder standpoint of what we as an industry are doing for them. And then Jen Linton flat out said I would change people's perception of the insurance industry. 
[00:24:43.44] SPEAKER: Hmm, yeah, OK. 
[00:24:46.91] KRISTEN: Like sometimes people think it's like you said, sitting in a cubicle and data entry and used car salesman kind of producers. And that's not what it is. 
[00:24:56.31] SPEAKER: Sometimes it kind of is. 
[00:24:58.03] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:24:59.54] I mean, not even like it kind of is like that. Like let's be real. 
[00:25:03.72] KRISTEN: It's a lot more. Like, I don't think any of my jobs have been like that, but I'm not an agent. 
[00:25:09.74] SPEAKER: You've been marketing for a tech company, Kristen. Let's be real. 
[00:25:12.76] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:25:14.93] Yeah. 
[00:25:15.20] KRISTEN: But I'm still in the industry. 
[00:25:16.29] SPEAKER: I have answered the phone all day long as a CSR. I've done that. I've been-- 
[00:25:21.35] KRISTEN: Yeah, but look at where it's gotten you. 
[00:25:22.71] SPEAKER: --selling non-standard auto policies, everything in between. I've done all those things. And like sometimes it is kind of like that, you know? I mean, but-- 
[00:25:31.22] KRISTEN: There's a growth opportunity, right? 
[00:25:32.25] SPEAKER: It's cool. I think-- 
[00:25:33.00] KRISTEN: Yeah, exactly. 
[00:25:33.74] SPEAKER: You know what? It's culture and it's all of that. It's like bringing that together. I don't know if the-- I guess the perception of the industry, it's like, hey, you know flow? Like flow is cool. And I'm trying to make something else up. Like what are you going to do, you know what I mean? Like we love insurance, like run around with that? I don't know. I like those insurance people. They're cool people. I want to go do that. I don't know. 
[00:25:57.28] KRISTEN: Maybe that's what we need to do. 
[00:25:58.40] [LAUGHTER] 
[00:25:59.10] Flipping back on my marketing thing is switching up all the commercials. I'm sorry, like some of the commercials, I know, I'm sorry, there's some of our biggest clients, but does that get people to buy insurance? 
[00:26:09.73] SPEAKER: No, but I don't know. So the one thing that does suck about the perception out there, like being in this world for a long time, there's a perception of being like an insurance salesman. Like, no, dude. Yes, I have a business. No, I don't want to get a quote from you. Yes, I have family and kids, and no, I don't need life insurance from you. I think there is that. But a bit of that is the nature of the beast. You know what I mean? 
[00:26:36.04] Like yeah, I mean, if I'm a used car salesman and I'm at a cocktail thing and I'm like, hey, dude, you ever need a used car, let me know, you know what I mean? But it's like, oh, you're a used car salesman? Like I hate you. And it's like, no, you don't, you know what I mean. Like, it's not really a thing. 
[00:26:52.86] But I get it, coming into the industry, going back to the people that are aging out and all of that and driving them back into it, like how do you entice people to come into this. I mean, the way-- I don't know. It depends on what types of people you need and what types you want to bring into the organization. I mean, it has to be about your culture, about what you're doing, how you're doing it, and you have to make it fun in some way or another. And I think, sure, you want to have modern stuff and be a modern organization. I mean, that's how you attract people, generally speaking. I mean, I don't know. 
[00:27:27.24] Or maybe not. Like whatever flavor you are on depends on where you are. So I meet people all the time that come into this industry, and you're right, they're like-- I met somebody the other day, and she was telling me her story, and she said that, she was like, I was at the college campus, the whole whatever it is, recruiting thing. 
[00:27:46.18] KRISTEN: Career fair? 
[00:27:46.75] SPEAKER: Career fair, thank you. Career fair, and like everybody's like lined up to oh, Google, all this, all that. There's giant lines. And then for what she was doing, it was like Accenture and PWC and all this. And then she's like, then there's these two dudes wearing Polo shirts at this insurance thing and they're like, hey, you want to move to New York? And she was like, that sounds fun. And like that's how she got into it. 
[00:28:13.27] And so I get it. I totally get it. It's not the big glitzy stuff, but maybe that's just it. It's like people showing success in this industry and I don't know, being proud of their success. Maybe that's part of it. Because as insurance people, it's like, we don't want to show our clients that we're making money and doing big things and being badass at what we do. Why not? 
[00:28:41.47] We're still providing a great service and this and that and the other. Hell yeah, I crush it. And yes, I do make money on you, just like everybody else is going to make money on you. But guess what? Hopefully I provide a better service than they do so you continue to let me make money off of you. Oh, and by the way, when I buy something from your business, you make money off of me too. 
[00:29:01.39] And so anyways, I think that's part of it. And I'm saying that psychologically, because as an agent, you think in these ways, I can't show up in that car, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. Maybe that's a culture thing. I'm going off on tangents this whole time. But maybe that's a little too far, but yeah, I think that's how you change the culture a bit. Maybe show up as a leader and a winner in your community. 
[00:29:24.04] KRISTEN: It was interesting because you said the car that you show up in. I think about a different industry, like a real estate agent, they show up in their very nice cars because you know that they're a good real estate agent. [LAUGHTER] 
[00:29:36.81] SPEAKER: They better. I think that if you want to culturally start to change the perception, it's like insurance is cool. Like that dude runs an insurance agency, that guy's badass. Oh, yeah, that's awesome. Oh, and you help people, too, and you make, like, a bunch of money doing that? Yeah. Oh, that sounds pretty sweet. I don't know. Like sure, go work for PWC and Accenture. That's fun. Let's be real. And so I don't know. I think maybe there's some of that. I don't know. Maybe that'll be my next gig. I'll do that. Go to Career fair. 
[00:30:10.57] KRISTEN: You're going to go work for Accenture? 
[00:30:11.85] SPEAKER: [INAUDIBLE] new insurance. 
[00:30:13.23] KRISTEN: Oh, OK. I was like, you're going to go be a consultant? 
[00:30:16.25] SPEAKER: [LAUGHS] Oh hell no. No, thank you. Sorry to all of our consultant listeners. I feel for you. I feel for you. 
[00:30:24.61] KRISTEN: OK, so I'm going to end this by asking you the question. If there was one thing-- if you could have a magic wand, there's one thing that you could change in the industry right now, what would it be? 
[00:30:35.11] SPEAKER: Adoption of technology. That's what I would solve. Mm-hmm. 
[00:30:39.83] KRISTEN: Both sides? 
[00:30:42.51] SPEAKER: I think on the agency side more than the carrier side. I've been on both sides. I spent a lot of time on both sides. I've seen it. And the carrier is a different animal. It's not as easy to adopt things because they're monsters, and they got a lot of big, big dollars not just like flowing through their pipes through a CRM perspective, but just generally. Like it's a monster. 
[00:31:05.50] Same thing goes for the big, big, big brokers too. Like I get it. But generally, our industry, like all of the 38, whatever it is, 40 some thousand agencies that are out there, they're mostly small business and whatnot. And so by them starting to leverage the tools that are available to them, not the new bright shiny object thing, like, sure, some of that stuff's cool, but just taking what you have and trying to figure out ways for it to help your business. You will start to leverage that solution, and then you'll start to say, how do I connect this to this to streamline that overall process. 
[00:31:48.34] More demand coming from the distribution, the agencies, for these types of things, like Grubhub, Uber Eats, all this stuff did, well, the carriers will say, oh, I need to be on that platform. I need to be connected in that way because people are not having it anymore. 
[00:32:11.56] Like, I get it. Mary puts it in a file in a filing cabinet, and she's worked there for her entire life, and all of that works. And I get it. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Totally cool. I'm not saying go mess up your situation. Lifestyle, business, have fun with it. Cool. Sell it to Hub in a few years or whoever. Totally get it, right? 
[00:32:31.06] But if you ask me how do you change this stuff in the industry and what would I change, I would say, that's cool, but I bet there's more bottom line that you could go and grab out of that business so you could spend more money on things or give other people raises or give to charity or whatever it may be, frankly, just operate a better business, more efficient business. I shouldn't say better, but more efficient that actually drives additional bottom line, leveraging that for you and yourself and your business and your people and your family will then get everybody else to start doing the same thing. 
[00:33:06.97] Then as an industry, we could start to do things like Uber Eats. I mean, it's stupid example, but I'm using Jason Kass's thing because we're talking about it. 100%, that's really what I feel. And being on the front lines of it, we build stuff and it doesn't get adopted. And it doesn't get adopted because people do it better the old way. And that's OK. Like, I get it. It's fine. It's your business. But if you want to really fix things, that's how you fix it. That's what everybody-- 
[00:33:35.42] KRISTEN: It's interesting too, because especially from where we sit, we build things based on what the industry is asking us to build. So they want it, but then when it's built, it's change, and change management is hard. 
[00:33:49.64] SPEAKER: Change management is a bitch. It really is. And trust me, I understand what that looks like, and I understand how difficult that can be. I've been on the front lines of that stuff. Like it's gnarly. It is. And so I get that too. But the best change management situations, however the hell you'd say that, that I've experienced in sitting inside of these companies is when they make it fun for the team and they don't just slap it at them and here it is and do it. 
[00:34:21.73] It's like they make it like a fun thing. It's a positive thing. This is what it's going to do. Because people are afraid, like what does this mean for me, and is this making me look dumb now, and like whatever and whatever. Slow roll it. Make it fun. Everybody's having a good time. Wow, this is great. Oh my gosh, this is going to give me so much more free time. That's OK. I think that that's where it goes wrong. 
[00:34:43.67] But I mean, hey, deliver from the top that's what you're going to do, this, that and the other, honestly that works too. Better than not. And so yeah, I mean, if you want to have drive real accountability around the whole thing and do all of that, 100%. However it works for you and your org. But I would say, adopt that stuff. It's going to change the industry. There are so many InsurTechs out there that are never going to be on this podcast that are building band-aids for a broken arm around this. It's bullshit. And as soon as somebody figures it out, that the demand comes, all those things go away. They just flutter away. Because it's a Band-Aid on a broken arm. 
[00:35:23.83] KRISTEN: That's all I got. 
[00:35:25.52] SPEAKER: That's all I got. That's pretty good. I thought that was pretty good. I went off some tangents a bit. I don't know. 
[00:35:32.89] KRISTEN: Opinions. 
[00:35:34.09] SPEAKER: Yeah. Yeah, let's do opinions. Let's go to opinions, yeah. I am a little opinionated. 
[00:35:41.19] KRISTEN: Well, like you said, you've been in this industry. You've sat in a lot of these different seats, so. All right, so we are looking for new people to be on. So for those of you who are listening, go to the website, and there is a place on the InsurTech podcast website where you can submit for new people. But Reed and I will be bringing on new InsurTechs. 
[00:36:03.01] SPEAKER: What does the future look like? What do we want as an industry? What would it be fun for us? I don't know, you know, beneficial to all. 
[00:36:11.18] KRISTEN: Yeah. 
[00:36:11.50] SPEAKER: Anyways, all right.